TopNotch
Well-known member
I'm so hoping this is hyperbole!
You need someone who understands what criticism is. That it's not just about dragging down but suggesting how things might be changed (if necessary, of course). Good luck with that.
To Forge an Ironmaiden...
- Thread starter Nevetharine
- Start date
You need someone who understands what criticism is. That it's not just about dragging down but suggesting how things might be changed (if necessary, of course). Good luck with that.
Nevetharine
Well-known member
from
It's not hyperbole, actually. He reads textbooks, but no fiction. He writes what I call screenplay-dialogue.
: This can't be happening!
: Do people really write like this?
: Who's that guy?
And without naming characters or describing scenes. My plot-hole expert. I feel sorry for the guy. His grammar is terrible (I'm not saying mine is perfect. English is also my second language) and I would have absolutely no idea how to help him.
Nevetharine
Well-known member
Hi Bees!
I did a lot of thinking this week (and a lot of sneezing) and sprinkled some crying in there, too.
I contemplated why I'm putting in all this work to write. It's not like I'll be able to turn it into a job and make an actual living off it. I'm just not that good and even if I were, it's not exactly seen as a job in my household; more like a hobby that takes up too much time and concentration.
I grappled this week (and probably will in coming weeks, too) with WHY I write? Why put in the work when nobody will read it? And this is the place to tell you all that I DESPISE editing and revising - so why torture my soul when nobody sees it but me? It literally sucks the joy out of creating for me. I'm a sucker for the discovery phase of writing.
I got told this week someone's grandmother in my family wrote poems all her life and nobody ever saw a single one of them. That may be my future.
I write because - it's an escape from reality; because there's a story in my mind that wants to come out in some way. Maybe I learn something through this story by the time I'm done writing it, or I fall in love with the characters.
And then people will come and tear it apart. "This must be like that; that must be so; you didn't do enough research here..."
Why? Who are YOU to tell me how to write MY story? Just because you want to hear it a certain way? The only explanation could be to put it out there in a market where 90% of novels never make back the money that was spent on editing them. To follow some arbitrary rule someone set of what a book should be in order to be 'readable' or 'good' or NO ONE will ever enjoy it.
It needs to be understandable - that much I'm not arguing. After all, I have to paint a picture in your mind with enough accuracy that you can see what I'm seeing.
And on research: There's a place for it in fiction. It's true. But only so much as is needed to move the story forward IMO, to make people feel 'grounded' in a sense. Because it's a story... it's fiction... it doesn't exist... and it's not a research paper.
My new reason for writing (the one I still have to get used to) is writing for the same reason I read: to escape the world. And I'll try and make peace with the fact that nobody ever has to see it but me. It may be safer for my characters that way. I love them just as they are without conforming them to society's views of what they should be.
It's sad; I liked having one other person comment on my work. But she doesn't care anymore, either, hasn't read my stuff in ages.
I suppose one day when I'm dead someone who thinks it worthwhile can publish all my stuff. Maybe I'll be critically acclaimed for them, then. Hah. I'll give'em a thumbs-up from beyond the grave...
I still need to get back into some routine with exercise.
✴Physical Activity:
》 Random Push-ups
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 33%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%
Have a great week, Bees!
I did a lot of thinking this week (and a lot of sneezing) and sprinkled some crying in there, too.
I contemplated why I'm putting in all this work to write. It's not like I'll be able to turn it into a job and make an actual living off it. I'm just not that good and even if I were, it's not exactly seen as a job in my household; more like a hobby that takes up too much time and concentration.
I grappled this week (and probably will in coming weeks, too) with WHY I write? Why put in the work when nobody will read it? And this is the place to tell you all that I DESPISE editing and revising - so why torture my soul when nobody sees it but me? It literally sucks the joy out of creating for me. I'm a sucker for the discovery phase of writing.
I got told this week someone's grandmother in my family wrote poems all her life and nobody ever saw a single one of them. That may be my future.
I write because - it's an escape from reality; because there's a story in my mind that wants to come out in some way. Maybe I learn something through this story by the time I'm done writing it, or I fall in love with the characters.
And then people will come and tear it apart. "This must be like that; that must be so; you didn't do enough research here..."
Why? Who are YOU to tell me how to write MY story? Just because you want to hear it a certain way? The only explanation could be to put it out there in a market where 90% of novels never make back the money that was spent on editing them. To follow some arbitrary rule someone set of what a book should be in order to be 'readable' or 'good' or NO ONE will ever enjoy it.
It needs to be understandable - that much I'm not arguing. After all, I have to paint a picture in your mind with enough accuracy that you can see what I'm seeing.
And on research: There's a place for it in fiction. It's true. But only so much as is needed to move the story forward IMO, to make people feel 'grounded' in a sense. Because it's a story... it's fiction... it doesn't exist... and it's not a research paper.
My new reason for writing (the one I still have to get used to) is writing for the same reason I read: to escape the world. And I'll try and make peace with the fact that nobody ever has to see it but me. It may be safer for my characters that way. I love them just as they are without conforming them to society's views of what they should be.
It's sad; I liked having one other person comment on my work. But she doesn't care anymore, either, hasn't read my stuff in ages.
I suppose one day when I'm dead someone who thinks it worthwhile can publish all my stuff. Maybe I'll be critically acclaimed for them, then. Hah. I'll give'em a thumbs-up from beyond the grave...
I still need to get back into some routine with exercise.
✴Physical Activity:
》 Random Push-ups
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 33%Leviathan Wakes - 5%Have a great week, Bees!
Sólveig
Well-known member
from
One of the lessons that I've learned from Rebecca Sugar is that, when dealing with criticisms, you should show your work by putting it at the side of you instead of before you. That way when the bullet comes, it doesn't hit the heart. It is difficult to do because it's your work, it's your blood and sweat, and everyone is defensive about their projects as they are their babies. I'm no different, and by the sound of it, neither you are. I actually remember one piece of comment from an anonymous that praised my style, but found my story to be unrealistic, and probably written by a man. You know what I did? I did a sequel to that story, slandering their comment by pretty much saying the genre is called "fiction" for a reason, and it performed better than the story before it. I don't chase realism, I chase authenticism.
In the world of publishing people are always saying that you should please standards, write and publish every single hour of the day, write like this, and that, and I've seen the stories that are selling: many of them are only one step from being a copy and paste from one another. Mine were on the way to do that, until I stopped and decided to follow the Mickey Spillane approach of never writing for critics, but writing for an audience. Mickey very rarely edited and rewrote, and he actually wrote his first book in 19 days. According to the Chicago Tribune, there was one time an editor took out 168 commas off his manuscript, only for Mickey to put back every single one of them, and said "no commas, no book." In your case, if you're writing to escape the world, it means that you are already writing for one audience that you know better than anyone else: yourself. I've done that before (as per my VtM session from two weeks ago, I believe), and I can tell you it feels much better to do so that way, regardless on publishing plans.
Just keep the Rebecca Sugar way of showing your work if you end up showing it to someone else.
In the world of publishing people are always saying that you should please standards, write and publish every single hour of the day, write like this, and that, and I've seen the stories that are selling: many of them are only one step from being a copy and paste from one another. Mine were on the way to do that, until I stopped and decided to follow the Mickey Spillane approach of never writing for critics, but writing for an audience. Mickey very rarely edited and rewrote, and he actually wrote his first book in 19 days. According to the Chicago Tribune, there was one time an editor took out 168 commas off his manuscript, only for Mickey to put back every single one of them, and said "no commas, no book." In your case, if you're writing to escape the world, it means that you are already writing for one audience that you know better than anyone else: yourself. I've done that before (as per my VtM session from two weeks ago, I believe), and I can tell you it feels much better to do so that way, regardless on publishing plans.
Just keep the Rebecca Sugar way of showing your work if you end up showing it to someone else.
Nevetharine
Well-known member
I can totally vibe with that guy you're talking about. My "editing" consists of fixing sentence structure, grammar, and punctuation, and adding body to parts where the story feels thin because I tend to underwrite especially in suspense.
But I've never myself felt a need to remove a part of the story to "improve pacing". It's a story. It happens in a sequence of ABCD. So what if a character spends a good deal ruminating? That's part of them.
The only thing I DO try to do, is copy technique that I read from published authors. I am stubbornly trying to get it right on the first draft everytime. And I think each time I write something, I get closer and closer to what seems "right" to me.
It sucks that I had to use an AI chatgpt to come to this conclusion but, I think the reason I write is simply because it's my form of art. It's more expressive than painting or drawing - a purer distillation. But it's art nonetheless. It's just me telling a story, to myself in this case, as a way of escaping like someone else escapes via their painting or crocheting.
I don't remember who said this, but I read a quote somewhere (and this is not exact): "I am a writer. And my notion of this stems entirely from the fact that I am inclined to write."
I wonder sometimes if there was such strict standards on what makes a book 'good' in the 1800s. If any authors who later became 'famous' ever wrote just for the pleasure of it, just for themselves, with no notion of publishing or meeting some industry standard, and maybe someone else published for them because they thought it ought to be put out there.
Nevetharine
Well-known member
Hello Bees!
I might've started out sad about the whole writing thing but there has been a shift this week and now I think it's for the better - for me anyway. It's liberating, really. I could choose to plan, not plan, write copious amounts of description or very little at all. If I choose to experiment with different techniques and narratives, there's no fear of failure. It's nice to see it as art again.
I'm going to celebrate the stories I finish (for myself) by eventually creating a printed copy of them with a self-designed cover. A dream for now, because printing is pricey. But I'll continue prepping them as ebooks. Draft2Digital has some nice formatting and I don't *have* to publish them after downloading a copy.
I've settled into a routine of writing every afternoon, sitting in the sunroom. Five hundred words a day minimum, and before that I revise the previous day's work. I write using the bluetooth keyboard and my old phone. It's like my own makeshift laptop. (Because my real laptop's motherboard failed catastrophically.)
And I spend the day looking for work as much as my data plan allows and then reading. Some of my monthly data allotment I spent on downloading new music. Yipe. So now I have to be extra frugal until the 9th when the bundle expires and I can purchase a new one.
One thing that needs work now is my sleeping. I wake up at 03:30 for no reason. Maybe my subconscious mind thinks that's a hip time to do yoga, because that's what I resort to, then.
That's all I have to update for now...
✴Physical Activity:
》 I did yoga every single day of this week! **proudly puffs out chest**
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 38%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%
The Gold Trail - 21% [This is an old Western. I'm trying to write a paranormal western with UFO's so I'm counting this as research.]
Have a great week, Bees!
I might've started out sad about the whole writing thing but there has been a shift this week and now I think it's for the better - for me anyway. It's liberating, really. I could choose to plan, not plan, write copious amounts of description or very little at all. If I choose to experiment with different techniques and narratives, there's no fear of failure. It's nice to see it as art again.
I'm going to celebrate the stories I finish (for myself) by eventually creating a printed copy of them with a self-designed cover. A dream for now, because printing is pricey. But I'll continue prepping them as ebooks. Draft2Digital has some nice formatting and I don't *have* to publish them after downloading a copy.
I've settled into a routine of writing every afternoon, sitting in the sunroom. Five hundred words a day minimum, and before that I revise the previous day's work. I write using the bluetooth keyboard and my old phone. It's like my own makeshift laptop. (Because my real laptop's motherboard failed catastrophically.)
And I spend the day looking for work as much as my data plan allows and then reading. Some of my monthly data allotment I spent on downloading new music. Yipe. So now I have to be extra frugal until the 9th when the bundle expires and I can purchase a new one.
One thing that needs work now is my sleeping. I wake up at 03:30 for no reason. Maybe my subconscious mind thinks that's a hip time to do yoga, because that's what I resort to, then.
That's all I have to update for now...
✴Physical Activity:
》 I did yoga every single day of this week! **proudly puffs out chest**
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 38%Leviathan Wakes - 5%The Gold Trail - 21% [This is an old Western. I'm trying to write a paranormal western with UFO's so I'm counting this as research.]Have a great week, Bees!
Nevetharine
Well-known member
Hello Bees!
So, I dreamt up a new plot bunny! It happens in the universe of I am Max and The Leap. On a different alien world, maybe in another part of Civilized Space.
Funny, the first two books also came to me in dream-format. I'm started off having a ball writing it, but now it's stalled a bit. Seems difficult for me to decide how to go forward.
I'm wondering if I could try writing a short story instead... but man... 7500 words is quite the limit. The first two chapters are already 6000 words. But it may good to chart the course with it, and then extend on it later. Hm.
And then I'm busy with another one that happens in my fantasy world. I've renamed it from Thalor to Valdaren. This story starts in a city called Vinterheim.
✴Physical Activity:
》 I did yoga most days of the week
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 56%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%
Finished the Gold Trail, started on a 'A Plain Man's Romance' (also a classic). I have to say, I loved the Gold Trail!
Apart from the obviously flawed societal views of the 1920s, the story had a lot of substance to it that I feel is lacking in most modern books of that genre.
There is a sort of dogged persistence and grit in a gold prospector. Sleeping with a single blanket in cold, wet snow, climbing mountains on an empty stomach for several days and living off nothing but green tea and crude flapjacks made over the fire with flour, water, and the unglamorous ancestor of bacon - salted pork - for weeks on end.
Man, that guy made me feel like a feeble human.
But the story gave me plenty of ideas for the fantasy one I'm busy with now.
Have a great week, Bees!
So, I dreamt up a new plot bunny! It happens in the universe of I am Max and The Leap. On a different alien world, maybe in another part of Civilized Space.
Funny, the first two books also came to me in dream-format. I'm started off having a ball writing it, but now it's stalled a bit. Seems difficult for me to decide how to go forward.
I'm wondering if I could try writing a short story instead... but man... 7500 words is quite the limit. The first two chapters are already 6000 words. But it may good to chart the course with it, and then extend on it later. Hm.
And then I'm busy with another one that happens in my fantasy world. I've renamed it from Thalor to Valdaren. This story starts in a city called Vinterheim.
✴Physical Activity:
》 I did yoga most days of the week
✴Reading:
Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 56%Leviathan Wakes - 5%Finished the Gold Trail, started on a 'A Plain Man's Romance' (also a classic). I have to say, I loved the Gold Trail! Apart from the obviously flawed societal views of the 1920s, the story had a lot of substance to it that I feel is lacking in most modern books of that genre.
There is a sort of dogged persistence and grit in a gold prospector. Sleeping with a single blanket in cold, wet snow, climbing mountains on an empty stomach for several days and living off nothing but green tea and crude flapjacks made over the fire with flour, water, and the unglamorous ancestor of bacon - salted pork - for weeks on end.
Man, that guy made me feel like a feeble human.
But the story gave me plenty of ideas for the fantasy one I'm busy with now.Have a great week, Bees!