To Forge an Ironmaiden...

[TopNotch]

he's never read a book before

I'm so hoping this is hyperbole!

You need someone who understands what criticism is. That it's not just about dragging down but suggesting how things might be changed (if necessary, of course). Good luck with that.

 

[Nevetharine]

I'm so hoping this is hyperbole!

You need someone who understands what criticism is. That it's not just about dragging down but suggesting how things might be changed (if necessary, of course). Good luck with that.

It's not hyperbole, actually. He reads textbooks, but no fiction. He writes what I call screenplay-dialogue.

: This can't be happening!
: Do people really write like this?
: Who's that guy?

And without naming characters or describing scenes. My plot-hole expert. I feel sorry for the guy. His grammar is terrible (I'm not saying mine is perfect. English is also my second language) and I would have absolutely no idea how to help him.

 

[Nevetharine]

Hi Bees!

I did a lot of thinking this week (and a lot of sneezing) and sprinkled some crying in there, too.

I contemplated why I'm putting in all this work to write. It's not like I'll be able to turn it into a job and make an actual living off it. I'm just not that good and even if I were, it's not exactly seen as a job in my household; more like a hobby that takes up too much time and concentration.

I grappled this week (and probably will in coming weeks, too) with WHY I write? Why put in the work when nobody will read it? And this is the place to tell you all that I DESPISE editing and revising - so why torture my soul when nobody sees it but me? It literally sucks the joy out of creating for me. I'm a sucker for the discovery phase of writing.

I got told this week someone's grandmother in my family wrote poems all her life and nobody ever saw a single one of them. That may be my future.

I write because - it's an escape from reality; because there's a story in my mind that wants to come out in some way. Maybe I learn something through this story by the time I'm done writing it, or I fall in love with the characters.

And then people will come and tear it apart. "This must be like that; that must be so; you didn't do enough research here..."

Why? Who are YOU to tell me how to write MY story? Just because you want to hear it a certain way? The only explanation could be to put it out there in a market where 90% of novels never make back the money that was spent on editing them. To follow some arbitrary rule someone set of what a book should be in order to be 'readable' or 'good' or NO ONE will ever enjoy it.

It needs to be understandable - that much I'm not arguing. After all, I have to paint a picture in your mind with enough accuracy that you can see what I'm seeing.

And on research: There's a place for it in fiction. It's true. But only so much as is needed to move the story forward IMO, to make people feel 'grounded' in a sense. Because it's a story... it's fiction... it doesn't exist... and it's not a research paper.

My new reason for writing (the one I still have to get used to) is writing for the same reason I read: to escape the world. And I'll try and make peace with the fact that nobody ever has to see it but me. It may be safer for my characters that way. I love them just as they are without conforming them to society's views of what they should be.

It's sad; I liked having one other person comment on my work. But she doesn't care anymore, either, hasn't read my stuff in ages.

I suppose one day when I'm dead someone who thinks it worthwhile can publish all my stuff. Maybe I'll be critically acclaimed for them, then. Hah. I'll give'em a thumbs-up from beyond the grave...

I still need to get back into some routine with exercise.

✴Physical Activity:

》 Random Push-ups


✴Reading:

Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 33%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%

Have a great week, Bees!

 

[Sólveig]

One of the lessons that I've learned from Rebecca Sugar is that, when dealing with criticisms, you should show your work by putting it at the side of you instead of before you. That way when the bullet comes, it doesn't hit the heart. It is difficult to do because it's your work, it's your blood and sweat, and everyone is defensive about their projects as they are their babies. I'm no different, and by the sound of it, neither you are. I actually remember one piece of comment from an anonymous that praised my style, but found my story to be unrealistic, and probably written by a man. You know what I did? I did a sequel to that story, slandering their comment by pretty much saying the genre is called "fiction" for a reason, and it performed better than the story before it. I don't chase realism, I chase authenticism.

In the world of publishing people are always saying that you should please standards, write and publish every single hour of the day, write like this, and that, and I've seen the stories that are selling: many of them are only one step from being a copy and paste from one another. Mine were on the way to do that, until I stopped and decided to follow the Mickey Spillane approach of never writing for critics, but writing for an audience. Mickey very rarely edited and rewrote, and he actually wrote his first book in 19 days. According to the Chicago Tribune, there was one time an editor took out 168 commas off his manuscript, only for Mickey to put back every single one of them, and said "no commas, no book." In your case, if you're writing to escape the world, it means that you are already writing for one audience that you know better than anyone else: yourself. I've done that before (as per my VtM session from two weeks ago, I believe), and I can tell you it feels much better to do so that way, regardless on publishing plans.

Just keep the Rebecca Sugar way of showing your work if you end up showing it to someone else.

 

[Nevetharine]

One of the lessons that I've learned from Rebecca Sugar is that, when dealing with criticisms, you should show your work by putting it at the side of you instead of before you. That way when the bullet comes, it doesn't hit the heart. It is difficult to do because it's your work, it's your blood and sweat, and everyone is defensive about their projects as they are their babies. I'm no different, and by the sound of it, neither you are. I actually remember one piece of comment from an anonymous that praised my style, but found my story to be unrealistic, and probably written by a man. You know what I did? I did a sequel to that story, slandering their comment by pretty much saying the genre is called "fiction" for a reason, and it performed better than the story before it. I don't chase realism, I chase authenticism.

In the world of publishing people are always saying that you should please standards, write and publish every single hour of the day, write like this, and that, and I've seen the stories that are selling: many of them are only one step from being a copy and paste from one another. Mine were on the way to do that, until I stopped and decided to follow the Mickey Spillane approach of never writing for critics, but writing for an audience. Mickey very rarely edited and rewrote, and he actually wrote his first book in 19 days. According to the Chicago Tribune, there was one time an editor took out 168 commas off his manuscript, only for Mickey to put back every single one of them, and said "no commas, no book." In your case, if you're writing to escape the world, it means that you are already writing for one audience that you know better than anyone else: yourself. I've done that before (as per my VtM session from two weeks ago, I believe), and I can tell you it feels much better to do so that way, regardless on publishing plans.

Just keep the Rebecca Sugar way of showing your work if you end up showing it to someone else.

I can totally vibe with that guy you're talking about. My "editing" consists of fixing sentence structure, grammar, and punctuation, and adding body to parts where the story feels thin because I tend to underwrite especially in suspense.

But I've never myself felt a need to remove a part of the story to "improve pacing". It's a story. It happens in a sequence of ABCD. So what if a character spends a good deal ruminating? That's part of them.

The only thing I DO try to do, is copy technique that I read from published authors. I am stubbornly trying to get it right on the first draft everytime. And I think each time I write something, I get closer and closer to what seems "right" to me.

It sucks that I had to use an AI chatgpt to come to this conclusion but, I think the reason I write is simply because it's my form of art. It's more expressive than painting or drawing - a purer distillation. But it's art nonetheless. It's just me telling a story, to myself in this case, as a way of escaping like someone else escapes via their painting or crocheting.

I don't remember who said this, but I read a quote somewhere (and this is not exact): "I am a writer. And my notion of this stems entirely from the fact that I am inclined to write."

I wonder sometimes if there was such strict standards on what makes a book 'good' in the 1800s. If any authors who later became 'famous' ever wrote just for the pleasure of it, just for themselves, with no notion of publishing or meeting some industry standard, and maybe someone else published for them because they thought it ought to be put out there.

 

[Nevetharine]

Hello Bees!

I might've started out sad about the whole writing thing but there has been a shift this week and now I think it's for the better - for me anyway. It's liberating, really. I could choose to plan, not plan, write copious amounts of description or very little at all. If I choose to experiment with different techniques and narratives, there's no fear of failure. It's nice to see it as art again.

I'm going to celebrate the stories I finish (for myself) by eventually creating a printed copy of them with a self-designed cover. A dream for now, because printing is pricey. But I'll continue prepping them as ebooks. Draft2Digital has some nice formatting and I don't *have* to publish them after downloading a copy.

I've settled into a routine of writing every afternoon, sitting in the sunroom. Five hundred words a day minimum, and before that I revise the previous day's work. I write using the bluetooth keyboard and my old phone. It's like my own makeshift laptop. (Because my real laptop's motherboard failed catastrophically.)

And I spend the day looking for work as much as my data plan allows and then reading. Some of my monthly data allotment I spent on downloading new music. Yipe. So now I have to be extra frugal until the 9th when the bundle expires and I can purchase a new one.

One thing that needs work now is my sleeping. I wake up at 03:30 for no reason. Maybe my subconscious mind thinks that's a hip time to do yoga, because that's what I resort to, then.

That's all I have to update for now...


✴Physical Activity:

》 I did yoga every single day of this week! **proudly puffs out chest**


✴Reading:

Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 38%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%
The Gold Trail - 21% [This is an old Western. I'm trying to write a paranormal western with UFO's so I'm counting this as research.]

Have a great week, Bees!

 

[Nevetharine]

Hello Bees!

So, I dreamt up a new plot bunny! It happens in the universe of I am Max and The Leap. On a different alien world, maybe in another part of Civilized Space.

Funny, the first two books also came to me in dream-format. I'm started off having a ball writing it, but now it's stalled a bit. Seems difficult for me to decide how to go forward.

I'm wondering if I could try writing a short story instead... but man... 7500 words is quite the limit. The first two chapters are already 6000 words. But it may good to chart the course with it, and then extend on it later. Hm.

And then I'm busy with another one that happens in my fantasy world. I've renamed it from Thalor to Valdaren. This story starts in a city called Vinterheim.


✴Physical Activity:

》 I did yoga most days of the week


✴Reading:

Dreamcatcher - Stephen King : 56%
Leviathan Wakes - 5%
Finished the Gold Trail, started on a 'A Plain Man's Romance' (also a classic). I have to say, I loved the Gold Trail!

Apart from the obviously flawed societal views of the 1920s, the story had a lot of substance to it that I feel is lacking in most modern books of that genre.

There is a sort of dogged persistence and grit in a gold prospector. Sleeping with a single blanket in cold, wet snow, climbing mountains on an empty stomach for several days and living off nothing but green tea and crude flapjacks made over the fire with flour, water, and the unglamorous ancestor of bacon - salted pork - for weeks on end.

Man, that guy made me feel like a feeble human. But the story gave me plenty of ideas for the fantasy one I'm busy with now.


Have a great week, Bees!

 

[Nevetharine]

Hi! Peeks around corner. I'm here because @Laura Rainbow Dragon dragged me back to the Hive by the ears.

I've been focusing a lot on my writing and reading. And, well, winter just put me in sloth mode. Now it's summer and I still haven't found my groove yet. I initially didn't think to come back because I felt, feel, too "old" to do these exercises.

In body, I mean. My body wants to slow down. Thinking of Darebee exercises makes it want to cry. I suppose that's really because I haven't been doing them. I have been walking, only 1.7km per day. And now and then I did yoga. And the last week I've cycled for half an hour on three days.

I also told myself I don't have the time to exercise when I'm writing/reading to write. I don't have the energy. Most days I really don't. My energy and stamina are dismal. I sit around all day writing and then I still need a nap, but writing stories is a different kind of brain olympics.

So there you have it. The reasons why I haven't come back in some time. I was really questioning if I want to, had the time to, the energy to.

Then came Laura. Where are you! Come back!

The problem may be too much screen time. Not enough alone time. If I'm not on Discord I'm stuck between a bazillion characters in my head, either my own or someone else's. And a good deal is just feeling tired because of sitting a lot, which means sitting more and being more tired.

So I suppose the answer is to start with something not too strenous. I've toyed with TEN, with a monthly challenge, and with the WotD. Maybe keeping a thread again will help me get back into it. And the Christmassy thingies are coming up. Not sure if I'll be able to handle the tree this year. Not sure if I want to participate in Secret Santa. But the snowball fight I can definitely get behind. Maybe even the December program.

I think my gameplan needs to be easy-ish workouts, followed by a few minutes of quiet meditation. Hah. I'd like to see if I can even still do that.

I hope you've all been well, and have fun getting ready for the festivities! Sorry for ghosting. (But you all knew I would at some point)

 

[NancyTree]

Welcome back!

You don't have to commit to the big goals, just start small and add small things. The most important thing is to start.
For me sometimes it helped to promise myself that I only had to do 1 set of a workout, and that was okay. And sometimes, when I had done that one set, I figured I could do one more.
You just find out what works for you.

Good luck and good to have you back!

 

[Maegaranthelas]

Welcome back, lovely person!

There is nothing wrong with easy workouts, they get you moving and that's what counts!
Yeah writing is one of those beasts that takes all your energy but also doesn't challenge your body in any way except posture and back pain :')

I hope you find the things that work for you

 

[Fremen]

Welcome back

 

[Mamatigerj]

So lovely to see you again! (i just came back myself, so i get it.)

 

[TopNotch]

Welcome back. Hope the writing is going well.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

Yeah! Welcome back @Nevetharine !

I think you have the right idea: start with stuff that's not too strenuous. Make it as easy as possible to get out of your chair and get started. Because getting started is the hardest part. Make the commitment to yourself to do a little, and it will build into more over time. (But let it take the time it needs.)

One thing that helps me (that I have not been doing lately and really should get back to--my whole training plan at the moment is set up to facilitate my doing this!) is to set a timer when I am at my desk, and when the timer goes off I get up and do something physical. I like the Pomodoro protocol for this: write for 25 minutes, then get up and be physical for 5. The 25 minutes I find is enough time to get meaningful work done without sitting for so long that everything gets stiff. The five minutes is enough time to squeeze in a micro-workout without being away from the writing for so long that it takes my head out of the story.

But you need to find the right time balance for you. I'm in an online writing group in which many of the members like to work with a ten minute timer. They will do a writing sprint for ten minutes only, and then stop. That's far too discombobulated for me. It can take me ten minutes just to get into my story in the first place! And then to stop right away? That would pull my head back out of the story again, and I'd be starting from scratch with the next far-too-short ten minute stretch. (Even with my 25-minute writing sessions, I need to keep the break to no more than 5 minutes in order to keep my head in the game.) But it works for them.

If your plan is to do 3 physical things a day, you could maybe even try setting alarms to do them at specific times. Like at 10AM you do TEN, at 2PM you do the WotD, and at 7PM do the Challenge. Something like that.

Your cycling is on a stationary bike, yes? I like certain repetitive exercises for being times when I can be in my head, thinking about my story, working out plot points, etc. Walking used to do this for me. But now that I walk with Shelby, it's become far too social of an experience. (We're constantly having to stop to visit with her many friends!) But running? I can still get into my writing head space zen while running. (I should definitely be doing this more too!) The idea is to find a physical exercise that gets you up out of your chair but doesn't feel like it's stealing time away from your writing, because you're still thinking about the writing while you're doing it. Then you prioritize your sitting time for the actual typing part of writing.

Anyhow... these are just ideas. It is hard to fit everything in! And it's extra hard to pull yourself away from the one thing you have been doing a good job of focussing on and being productive with to do something else. It's worth the effort though, I think. In the long run, maintaining our physical health helps to keep our minds sharp for the writing.

You can do this!
(And we can do this!)

 

[Sólveig]

Hello! I hope you're having fun in your projects!

 

[Nevetharine]

Morning!

Just a short update. It's something.

Exercise:
- Completed Day 2 of TEN ✔
- Completed 5 minutes of Meditation✔
- EotD✔
- Walked 2km✔

 

[Syrius]

Welcome back!!! Missed reading you! I like to get up and stretch or walk (pace) when I am stuck on something in my story. Look forward to throwing snowballs with you again this year!

 

[Nevetharine]

Hi! We’ve had some problems with electricity today. A few clever loons plundered a substation not too far from here, left a broad area in the dark since 3 a.m. this morning. Nevertheless, I managed to do my workout. It wasn’t much, but it’s something. I’d also like to share something I’m proud of.

For the past few months, I’ve worked on my books every day in some form. Maybe it’s not always the same book, and I’m not always writing. Sometimes I revise and change words around. Some days I just think of them or scribble out plans and scenes and do no writing at all. But the point is, I’m in a solid habit of working on them, even a little, daily.

I’m also in a solid habit of reading at the moment. I read every night, without fail, for two or two and a half hours. If I can apply this to fitness…

Maybe I ought to make a New Year’s resolution to not ghost Darebee next year. Also, is it just me, or do I ghost every year at roughly the same time? No need to go back in time. We’ll assume it’s some weird subconscious habit.



Physical Activity:

- Completed Day 3 of TEN at full blast.

- Completed the Exercise of the Day

 

[Nevetharine]

Hi!

We still have power outages: off for two hours at a time while they fix the cables. I managed to get some writing done, longhand. Just a couple of paragraphs, but I carefully planned out the sentences before I wrote them. It took a while. Managed to edit almost a whole chapter too between power cuts.

I've turned on the Christmas tree lights! Then hubby broke the tree . So now I guess I'm getting a Christmas tree for Christmas instead of Lindt chocolate truffles.

Physical Activity
- Completed Day 4 of TEN ✔ (I'm hating on this ab-day)
- Completed 6 minutes of Meditation✔
- EotD✔
- Walked 2km✔

 

[Maegaranthelas]

That ab day was intense, I was also a bit grumbly over it xD
And oh no for the broken christmas tree!

 

[TopNotch]

Christmas tree lights in November?

 

[Nevetharine]

Christmas tree lights in November?

It's late! Here the shops start decorating in October.

 

[Nevetharine]

I am an old lady. (At 31)


Don't laugh at me.



How do I get it so that I actually receive notifs when you guys update your threads? I'm following most of you I think, but don't see when you update?

 

[Sólveig]

Christmas tree lights in November?

By presidential decree, all towns in my country had to be decorated for Christmas since October this year.

I wish I was joking. Then again, some stores had Halloween decorations up, so Halloween still took over (in spite of the Venezuelan Evangelicalists that tend to have an unhealthy amount of hate for Halloween because who knows why; they just hate fun I guess).

I am an old lady. (At 31)


Don't laugh at me.



How do I get it so that I actually receive notifs when you guys update your threads? I'm following most of you I think, but don't see when you update?

Interacting with those threads like leaving reactions do help, but posting fixes it better.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

How do I get it so that I actually receive notifs when you guys update your threads? I'm following most of you I think, but don't see when you update?

I visit DAREBEE via a web browser. You'll see some things in different locations if you're visiting on your phone. So you might need to hunt around for it. But at the top of a thread there should be text that says either "Watch" or "Unwatch". If it says "Unwatch" you're already watching that thread and should be receiving notifications when it's updated. If it says "Watch" just click on the word and now you will be watching it. (It will give you a choice as to whether you want to receive an email when the thread is updated or just be notified on the site.)

If you go to your profile and select "Preferences" you can choose which actions on the site will automatically generate notifications for you.
I have mine set such that if I comment on a thread, I'm automatically subscribed to watch that thread. (But if I visit a thread and only react to it, without posting a comment, I need to remember to manually subscribe if I want to follow that thread.)

 

[Maegaranthelas]

If you are already watching the threads but not currently receiving updates, going to your 'watched' threads (top of the page in the hive) might show you some in bold.
As far as I understand it, those are threads that you missed a notification for, and it therefore doesn't send you a new message.
I go in there every few weeks to check if I missed someone so I can catch up on their thread =)

 

[Nevetharine]

By presidential decree, all towns in my country had to be decorated for Christmas since October this year.

I wish I was joking. Then again, some stores had Halloween decorations up, so Halloween still took over (in spite of the Venezuelan Evangelicalists that tend to have an unhealthy amount of hate for Halloween because who knows why; they just hate fun I guess).



Interacting with those threads like leaving reactions do help, but posting fixes it better.

South Africa doesn't do much (anything?) for Halloween. This year though, there were some cute vampire fluffy toys at our local grocer.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

Here Hallowe'en is starting to rival even Christmas in some respects. Not on total dollars spent--the Christmas gift-giving frenzy still takes the cake there. But more and more houses are starting to put up Hallowe'en decorations, and there are certainly more elaborate displays set up for Hallowe'en. My neighbourhood had a vendor fair, music in the park, a scavenger hunt, a haunted house (set up in a church, no less), a costumed dance party (licensed, also in a church), carnival games, pumpkin carving (I almost went to that just to get the free pumpkin) and a parade with prizes for costumes and floats. (People make costumes for their dogs too!) There was also something called "the Witches of Wortley" which I think is a choreographed dance people do in witch costumes. (I didn't see this, but I think it's a dance performance. There were rehearsals for three weeks before hand for people who wanted to be in it.) There was also a "Terror Tour" which was walking around the village, visiting some of the decorated houses where they had QR codes on display which one could scan to listen to a spooky poem or short story. Handing out candy at one's door is almost de rigueur. (My upstairs neighbours wanted to sit out on our shared front porch to hand out their candy. Which was awesome because it meant I didn't have kids ringing my door bell all night.)

But the Christmas lights? We definitely have them up in November. Pretty much as soon as the Hallowe'en decorations come down, the Christmas ones go up. When I was a kid it used to be stores and shopping malls would wait until after Remembrance Day to put up Christmas decorations and start playing Christmas music. But not any more. Now the Christmas kitsch goes up on November 1.

 

[Nevetharine]

Got the new tree setup! It’s green with white tips. Added some colorful tinsel and some glossy balls, some flashing multi-colored lights, and I dare say it looks better than the old one! Well, I suppose anything would look better, because the old one was going on three decades…

Had a busy day in town, wanted to bake rye bread and never got to it. On the bright side, I had enough energy for more exercise!



Physical Activity:

TEN Day 5

EotD [This was so fun done to this song! Maybe that’s why I had more energy. I suddenly got a very Pennywise-like idea for a fantasy novel involving a psychopathic ringmaster who kidnaps little children and mind-controls their nasty parents into performing deadly tricks in his circus!]

3 sets of Slay, rested until I caught my breath

5 minutes of attempted meditation. Tee-he-he

Writing: 0 words

Editing: Finished 1 chapter

Reading: Nora Roberts – Northern Lights : 11% completed

 

[Nevetharine]

Physical Activity:

TEN Day 6

5 minutes of meditation.

Writing: 0 words

Editing: Finished 1.5 chapters

Reading: Nora Roberts – Northern Lights : 14% completed

 

[Nevetharine]

Observations on baking rye bread:

*The kitchen smells delightfully of sourdough
*Rye dough is like quicksand. You can't really knead it. It swallows you like the tar monster.

Haven't tasted it yet.

Physical Activity:

TEN Day 7 (I danced to this more than I did step jacks. Also, TEN is giving me DOMS. Yeah, yeah, laugh it up. )

5 minutes of meditation.

Writing: 0 words

Editing: Finished 1 chapter

Reading:

- Kirsten Hannah : The Great Alone :: 4%

- Charlie Fletcher : The Oversight :: 1% (Exchanged Northern Lights for this as I've read NL before. I discovered my backup drive from ten years ago, along with a shitton of fantasy novels my brother brought me. It lacks in my kind of space opera sci-fi, sadly.)

Side note: do people even still write Westerns today? Like westerns set in the old frontier times? I'm kind of into them for some reason.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

Side note: do people even still write Westerns today? Like westerns set in the old frontier times? I'm kind of into them for some reason.

Yup. https://www.goodreads.com/genres/new_releases/westerns

 

[Nevetharine]

Yup. https://www.goodreads.com/genres/new_releases/westerns

Bleh. Apparently western = romance on goodreads. Meanwhile I was thinking more along the lines of No Country for Old Men

Ah, Google seems better actually.

 

[Sólveig]

Side note: do people even still write Westerns today? Like westerns set in the old frontier times? I'm kind of into them for some reason.

They do. Actually, Neo-westerns took over cinema for a while, so it won't be surprising to see spikes in the genre. Red Dead might have also collaborated with the genre not dying.

The real question should be if people are still writing boxing fiction, because that was a thing for men's literature back in the old days.

Bleh. Apparently western = romance on goodreads. Meanwhile I was thinking more along the lines of No Country for Old Men

Ah, Google seems better actually.

No "No Country for Old Men"? You might have the opportunity to break into the neo-western with it.

 

[Nevetharine]

They do. Actually, Neo-westerns took over cinema for a while, so it won't be surprising to see spikes in the genre. Red Dead might have also collaborated with the genre not dying.

The real question should be if people are still writing boxing fiction, because that was a thing for men's literature back in the old days.



No "No Country for Old Men"? You might have the opportunity to break into the neo-western with it.

I guess I'm not opposed to having a little romance in the western. So long as there isn't an abundance of that abomination of literature called Dramatic Tension, where the love interests are so annoyed and at odds with each other that it pulls me right out of belief. How do you fall in love with someone you hate?

But I love reading about the kind of frontier life they had at the time. Hard but simple. With a shoot out or two and the spitting outlaw. Blame my last spree of reading classic books. It kindled the love in me.

 

[Nevetharine]

For when you feel you really don't have time to write.

https://www.writersdigest.com/be-inspired/the-9-minute-novelist-how-to-write-a-novel-quickly

No exercise today. I'm counting my 2km walk in 37°C sun as exercise.

 

[TopNotch]

No exercise today. I'm counting my 2km walk in 37°C sun as exercise.

No, that's more like masochism. Oh well, each to his/her own.

 

[JohnStrong]

Bleh. Apparently western = romance on goodreads. Meanwhile I was thinking more along the lines of No Country for Old Men

Ah, Google seems better actually.

Strongly recommend A Congregation of Jackals by S. Craig Zahler if you're looking for a very harsh western.

 

[TopNotch]

I find Fantasticfiction is a good place to find books of certain genres. I selected the Western filter for you.

 

[Nevetharine]

Oh! I completely forgot to tell you all this!

I quit coffee!!


Sort of.

I've switched to decaf

 

[Sólveig]

For when you feel you really don't have time to write.

https://www.writersdigest.com/be-inspired/the-9-minute-novelist-how-to-write-a-novel-quickly

I remember writing my first full novel in two weeks. I also remember a story in James Scott Bell's How to Write Pulp Fiction about a writer who was in a party at his home, and had to deliver a story first thing in the morning, so he vanished from the party for a couple of hours, and managed to crank up a 6K manuscript, ready for publishing, and then came back to the party as if he never left. He also mentioned Mickey Spillane writing a book in 19 days as well.

Speed writing can be tiring, but it can be fun. However, I like that you shared this. I didn't know the Fleming method, and that'll work for me when I break down my Manuscript. The prompt introduced there though, and the exercise that comes with it, I'm definitely using those at some point, and publish my results.

ADDENDUM: That also reminds me of 120 Days of Sodom. Marquis de Sade wrote the first part while in prison in the Bastille in 37 days, from October 22nd to Novembre 28th of 1785. He did it night after night, from 7 PM until 10 PM, on sheets of paper that he glued them up together one after the other, creating a long scroll that measured 12 meters, and he wrote back to back. The only reason he didn't finish the novel is because the Bastille got stormed in, and he thought that he lost the scroll forever, for which he wrote that he weeped tears of blood. Back up your writing, writers. I also lost my stuff not due to a storm in to my house, but to due to a virus the first time, and a faulty hard drive the second time.

 

[Nevetharine]

Back up your writing, writers. I also lost my stuff not due to a storm in to my house, but to due to a virus the first time, and a faulty hard drive the second time.

I think I would've lost my marbles well and truly forever. The few I have left.

One day on the off chance that I have no time for writing, I'll remember nine minutes of writing adds up over time. If I write just 250 words a day, I'd have a first draft at the end of the year. And some famous writers finished their stories on their commute back home.

This is a real fear of mine. That one day I'll get swept up in life and won't have time for it anymore. For writing or reading. I'll also remember then that Stephen King reads in small sips while standing in queues.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

I guess I'm not opposed to having a little romance in the western. So long as there isn't an abundance of that abomination of literature called Dramatic Tension, where the love interests are so annoyed and at odds with each other that it pulls me right out of belief. How do you fall in love with someone you hate?

You are using the wrong term here. "Dramatic Tension" does not mean the love interests in the story hate one another.

Dramatic Tension is any feeling of suspense and/or anticipation that keeps your reader/audience engaged in your story. It is simply the feeling of actually caring about/being interested in what might happen next in the story enough to keep reading/listening/viewing the story. Dramatic Tension is not an abomination of literature, but quite the opposite: Dramatic Tension necessary for literature (or any other form of storytelling) to work. A story that does not have dramatic tension is a shit story that nobody (except for, I suppose, folks who enjoy suffering through abject boredom) will read through to the end.

Dramatic Tension can be created through all sorts of things, including, yes, interpersonal conflict. (Which I suspect is where whoever taught you the term came up with a confused definition for it.) But trust me: you do not hate Dramatic Tension. You use it in your own storytelling! You're just not a fan of stories in which the only conflict is characters being sexually attracted to characters who they hate.

 

[Nevetharine]

You're just not a fan of stories in which the only conflict is characters being sexually attracted to characters who they hate.

Yes. That. Because it doesn't make *sense*. Especially when there usually is another form of conflict in these books anyway.

I don't know what to call it then. But *that* is an abomination of literature because to me, life doesn't work that way. I don't fall in love with people who annoy the living **** out of me.

It doesn't engage me. It breaks belief immediately and annoys me enough to delete the whole book.

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

I don't know what to call it then.

A romance trope that doesn't interest you.

It is an attempt to create dramatic tension. It's just an attempt that doesn't work for you. (Or me either.)

Different people have different tastes in fiction. Tropes that are hugely popular, well-loved, and even considered necessary by some people will be equally despised and considered story-killers by others.

As well as being completely uninterested in the enemies-to-lovers trope, I find tragic hero stories to be boring, irritating, and unpleasant. All those "great works of literature" they forced us to read in high school: Romeo & Juliet, Macbeth, Othello, Hamlet, King Lear, Oedipus Rex, Death of a Salesman? Boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, boring, and boring. I want to read stories about characters who struggle against adversity and ultimately triumph, making the world a better place. Not stories about characters who have things pretty good in life and then lose it all because they are idiots!

More classic "greats" they made us read in high school that I hated: On the Beach, The Diviners, The Catcher in the Rye, The Great Gatsby, Lord of the Flies.
I also recall A Canticle for Leibowitz as being long, boring, and ultimately depressing.
(Honestly: if we're worried about the mental health of adolescents, WTF do we make them read so much literature about hopelessness?)
Also: Gone With the Wind--which I didn't read for school but because a girl I had a crush on told me it was her favourite book of all time and, wanting me to read it, loaned me her precious copy. Yeuch!

Honestly, I so strongly hated so much of the supposedly great literature they made us read in high school, it made me doubt that I could be a writer, because clearly I was "too weird" and like stories and characters that no one else will want to read about. Which, of course, is not true at all. (Weird? Yes. Too weird? There's no such thing!) Preferring hopeful stories about characters who triumph over adversity is actually very common, and--contrary to what we were taught in high school--lots of absolutely fabulous literature (and other formats of storytelling) have been written and are still being written with this trope.

 

[Nevetharine]

A romance trope that doesn't interest you.

It is an attempt to create dramatic tension. It's just an attempt that doesn't work for you. (Or me either.)

It's a little more than that. It's a whole effing genre that sucks. Even friends-to-lovers, these days, do it. I don't get it. How is the person a friend if you mistrust them so much?

Anyway, I'm just put off by it. I can understand hesitation for valid reasons (and there are precious few I tolerate).

Classical romances are still fine in my opinion. They are, as the name implies, classy. And I can accept that a class divide keeps two people apart. That's part of history and makes sense.

As I've said, ironically, they get it right when it's a subplot in another genre.




Regarding, what did you call it, tragic heroes? I'm a fan of heroes who find themselves in a precarious situation, a dreadful situation even, but ultimately grow enough to rise to the top. Or basically just decides I'm not taking this crap anymore.

In fact, that's about all I write. I love making my heroes suffer as much as I love turning them into badasses through said suffering.

Also, I do not read stories that don't have happy endings. Ever.

Ever.

Yes. I hate Titanic. Deeply, thoroughly despise it. And also Romeo and Juliet.

And, thanks to HBO, they ruined Game of Thrones for me too.

 

[Nevetharine]

Lookie! I did a full-sized workout today. My poor abs. My poor shoulders!! I'll tally up the other burpees I do during the day (if any) to tomorrow's count.

Physical Activity:

TEN day 8 and day 9
30 Burpees to catch 60 turkeys

Writing/Editing:
Edited 1 chapter

Reading:

The Oversight: 9%
The Great Alone: 11%

 

[Laura Rainbow Dragon]

It's a little more than that. It's a whole effing genre that sucks.

Okay. So there's a whole genre that doesn't interest you.

I'm not a fan of the romance genre either. If the main conflict in a story is "how will these two characters get together romantically?" (which it must be, or the story is, by definition, not a romance) I just don't care enough to be bothered reading it.

HUGE numbers of people disagree with you and I on this. Romance is the most popular book genre, I think by a pretty wide margin. But this okay. Chacun à son goût.

A question though: If you dislike the entire genre so much, why do you read (and even write) it?

The most popular genre thing is a draw for some writers, for sure. If you're trying to sell your fiction, romance is hands down the easiest genre in which to make a livable income. This is in part due to its huge readership. But it's also due to the fact that romance readers haven't fallen prey to the snobbish belief that "fast writing is bad writing". Neither have romance publishers. Romance readers will happily gobble up multiple books a year by their favourite authors. And romance publishing lines actually want their authors to produce multiple books a year. This is not the case with other genres. (Although, if you're self-publishing, you can of course publish as much content as you're able to create.) I think though that if you try to write in a genre that you hate, this will come through in the writing. And even if you somehow manage to disguise your contempt, writing in a genre you don't like is going to eat at your soul after a while.

Classical romances are still fine in my opinion. They are, as the name implies, classy. And I can accept that a class divide keeps two people apart. That's part of history and makes sense.

Okay. So you do not dislike the entire genre.

The conflict in a romance story does not need to be the enemies-to-lovers one. You can write a modern romance in which a class divide is what keeps the characters apart. You can write a modern romance in which ethnicity, nationality, religion, age, profession, culture, and/or politics is what creates the conflict. There could be legal and/or health reasons keeping the characters apart. There could be a physical barrier between the characters (long distances, or an actual wall). Conflict can arise for all sorts of reasons. And it does! I am certain there are modern romance writers who use these types of conflicts (and more I've not even though of) to throw complications into the path of their characters trying to get together. I cannot list specific examples for you because I am not personally well-read in this genre at all. But the genre is huge. And it is definitely not all about the the specific conflict trope you despise.

If you are finding that every modern romance you read uses this one trope, I suspect you have fallen into an algorithm sinkhole. Get away from your usual sources of book recommendations and seek out new ones. Seek out people who enjoy reading modern romances (different people from any you've already been taking suggestions from) and ask them what they like and why. Ask a public library librarian or library tech. These people tend to be well-read, and if they're working in a public library in a public-facing role, it is actually their job to help you find books that interest you. That is their area of expertise! If you have access to an independent bricks & mortar bookstore, the staff there can be a great source of book recommendations too. (Chain bookstores are more likely to hire working stiffs who just need to make rent and figured selling books would be preferable to cleaning latrines. But you may find employees there too who love books enough to have knowledge beyond simply recommending the latest bestseller.)

When did you last check in with DAREBEE's What are you currently reading? thread? We have a lot of book-lovers on DAREBEE, including folks who are well-read in quite a diverse range of genres. (I've received some wonderful Space Opera recommendations from other Bees over the years.)

Definitely get away from Inkitt! Everything you have told me about that platform suggests it is a bad fit for you. And I 100% guarantee you you are not seeing the full range of what is being written in modern romances if you're only looking there.

As I've said, ironically, they get it right when it's a subplot in another genre.

Because any genre other than Romance must have, by definition, a main conflict other than "how will these two characters get together romantically?" Other genres can (and often do) have romantic subplots. But the subplot usually arises out of whatever the main conflict is. So you necessarily have an obstacle other than interpersonal friction for the characters in the romantic subplot to deal with.

Regarding, what did you call it, tragic heroes? I'm a fan of heroes who find themselves in a precarious situation, a dreadful situation even, but ultimately grow enough to rise to the top. Or basically just decides I'm not taking this crap anymore.

That's not a tragic hero.

Also, I do not read stories that don't have happy endings. Ever.

Ever.

Clearly you do not like tragic heroes either.

A tragic hero, at its most basic definition, is the protagonist of a tragedy. (They don't need to do anything at all that would fit our modern definition of "heroic".)
A tragedy, by definition, does not have a happy ending.

Things can get a little bit murky in modern fiction, because our modern sensibilities allow for stories with endings that are tragic but also hopeful. (e.g.: Pay It Forward)
But the concept of a tragic hero is an old one handed down to us from classical Greece.

In classical storytelling, a story is either a tragedy or a comedy.
Comedies end with marriages.
Tragedies end with death.

A tragic hero, by definition must fail. They can briefly--but never ultimately--rise to the top. Any gains the character manages to make in the middle of the story necessarily must be lost again, and the character must end up in a worse position by the end of the story than where they were at the start. (Usually they end up dead.) If this does not happen, the story is not a tragedy, and its protagonist therefore is not a tragic hero.

The classic example of a tragic hero is Oedipus Rex.

Oedipus is the son of the King and Queen of Thebes. But a terrible prophecy states that he will grow up to murder his father and marry his mother. His parents, understandably not wanting this to happen, dump baby Oedipus out in the wilderness to die. Then a herdsman finds the baby and takes him to Corinth, where he is adopted by a couple who raise Oedipus as their own son.

When Oedipus grows up, he learns of the prophecy that he is to murder his father and marry his mother. Not wanting this to happen (and not knowing that the people who he thinks are his parents are not, in fact, biologically his parents) he leaves Corinth.

While out on the road, Oedipus meets up with an older man, with whom he gets into a dispute over who should go through a crossroad first. So he kills the guy.
He then travels on to Thebes, where he discovers that the queen, Jocasta, an older woman, has recently been widowed. So he marries her.

Everything is hunky-dory for a bit. Ol' Oedipus knocks up his mother-wife four times, producing the lovely Eteocles, Polynices, Antigone, and Ismene. And the new royal family of Thebes rules in peace and harmony for a bunch of years.

But then a terrible plague befalls the city. Crops, livestock, and people begin to die. So Oedipus sends a messenger off to Delphi to ask the all-seeing Oracle there what to do. The Oracle at Delphi says Thebes' problems stem from the fact that the city's former King, Laius' murder has not yet been avenged. So Oedipus vows to hunt down Laius' murderer and bring him to justice.

This, of course, leads to Jocasta and Oedipus figuring out what has really happened. Jocasta kills herself. And then Oedipus blinds himself and then goes to live in exile in the wilderness.

The end.

 

[Nevetharine]

A question though: If you dislike the entire genre so much, why do you read (and even write) it?

I DO NOT write romance where the main interests dig their heels into the ground.

In most of my stories, they already trust each other. Have been friends, or have their own things to deal with that keeps them "from giving in". Other, real-life conflicts. Like job pressure, or family pressure, or as in the case of The Runaways, the man has an alcohol problem and thinks it's a bad idea because the woman he loves deserves better. She doesn't agree and sort of pushes him in that direction. Okay there's a child in the mix here too (not theirs), but that's the gist of it.

I don't start off on "Oh I will *never* take a man! Ever." Or "I've just met him but what an obnoxious bloke he is! I'm certainly not getting together with the likes of him! He could be a serial killer!"

No. They meet, they spend time together. They become friends. Then they become more than friends. And support each other.

I write what I want to read. And especially DO NOT READ the funk on Inkitt. (Bad quality. Bad bad bad)

And it could be that I've fallen into an algorithm thingy outside of it. I just have no idea how to seek out what I want besides acquiring a bunch of stuff and deleting most of them to sift out the good ones. I'm sick of that search at the moment.

 

[Nevetharine]

That's not a tragic hero.


Clearly you do not like tragic heroes either.

Yes I know. And no I don't.


And you know what? Fun side note. Romance wasn't always just a love story anyhow. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_(prose_fiction)